User talk:Feldmahler/archive22

Free public domain sheet music from IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library
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Due to my work load I may look at your message but not respond immediately if it is not urgent. I will respond when and if appropriate. I apologize for any inconvenience!


Archive Pages for this Talk Page

Three more things


  1. IMSLP.EU: This is great (Although apparently it's not your fault :)! However, we need to change IMSLP:File Blocked accordingly. How do we get the imslpcount to measure the 1115 TB scores as opposed to just those Non-PD in the US?
  2. Also, scores that are copyrighted in Canada but not in the EU (mostly Editio Princeps and RoST) are still showing up as [B] and not (EU) (BTW, did you want that inconsistency?)
  3. I don't know how one could fix this, but when searching for a work using a possessive (e.g. "Beethoven's Ninth"), IMSLP does not show up on Google, and a work does not show up on IMSLP. Can this be remedied? Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
  1. I think you might need the #expr function to do subtraction. The comma might break the #expr function though. I will have this on my todo list, but since it is practically speaking not of a huge importance, it will not be high priority.
  2. This is correct. These scores shouldn't be on the Canadian server to begin with. Only files that can be on the Canadian server can be on the EU server.
  3. I'm not sure how to fix this except by manually adding the title to Alternative Title. But this is a very bad idea because it is not really an alternative title, plus, should be fixed by code and not manually. I won't worry about it too much at this point. --Feldmahler 22:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
  1. I'm not quite sure I got that, but waiting is fine.
  2. I see.
  3. That's fine. It's a thorny issue, but luckily many search without possessives.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:04, 13 July 2010 (UTC)


I've not wanted to harp on about this while you were busy on the main site, but the forum DNS lookup is still very sporadic here in the UK, and is only working around 40% of the time (switching on and off every few minutes or so). Can anything be done to fix it? Sorry to add to your workload! — P.davydov 19:47, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

I've also experienced several outages from Italy over the last few days, though strangely only from one of the two ISPs I'm currently using. --Leonard Vertighel 22:08, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Welcome back Leonard! How was school? I take it that you are finished for now.
I've fixed the forums (the problem was one of the DNS servers). Due to caching this can take a few days to clear though. --Feldmahler 22:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes it all seems OK now. Many thanks! — P.davydov 20:43, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Feldmahler. User Squin has reported that this Russian site includes some scores that were uploaded to IMSLP under the CC licence, so this may need investigating. Further details can be found on my talk pageP.davydov 19:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't want to sound negative but... I'm afraid that would be a rather futile exercise. Trying to enforce copyright on a Russian website is like trying to make a warthog eat with knife and fork. --Leonard Vertighel 20:10, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

With a little time and patience, anything's possible... ;-) — P.davydov 20:24, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, if they are not charging for items posted under a Non-commercial or Share Alike version of the license, they are free to copy and distribute them under the terms of the CC license. Shame on you, Leonard, that comment almost caused me to spit out my drink all over the computer screen. :)) Carolus 00:12, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Search again

One thing I noticed: on wikipedia, when one searches the title of a redirect, it takes you straight to that redirect and thus to the page linked to. Here, if you search, say, mahler, then one has to click the link at the top. This is apparently confusing for new users, and is a bit of a time-waster sometimes. Thus:

  1. Why is this different between wikipedia and IMSLP? and
  2. Can we change this?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 23:50, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is running MediaWiki 1.16, while IMSLP runs MW 1.15, and that is the reason. 1.16 is still in beta the last time I checked. It is possible that I may skip 1.16 and wait for 1.17, depending on circumstance and timing. In any case, we'll see. --Feldmahler 14:25, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, this search discrepancy has always been around.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:53, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, you must be talking about the difference between the "Go" button and the "Search" button. The reason IMSLP only has the "Search" button (as "General search") is because it is broader than the "Go" button, which forces a redirect whenever a corresponding page exists, and consequently the user cannot search other pages for the search string.
If you think "Go" is more useful than "Search" I can certainly consider changing it. --Feldmahler 23:05, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

I see. I definitely think that it is more useful. Perhaps Search can be pushed further down? The PMLP# and IMSLP# searches could be made CR-only, as they are probably only useful to CRs. Something like that.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 00:13, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Global changes (Bots?)

Hi Feldmahler. I was wondering if there's some way to globally search for and replace text throughout the site, as it would be an enormous time saver with issues like:

  • Correcting "monocrome" to "monochrome" (712 pages!)
  • Changing old headings like "Transcriptions and Excerpts" to "Arrangements and Transcriptions" (in such cases it's not even possible to carry out a standard search for the old titles)
  • Adding wiki links to names of composers and publishers, where they don't yet exist.
  • Changing "A flat" to "A", "Major" to "major", etc.

The bigger the site gets, the harder it becomes to manage these kinds of issues, and maybe we could have some sort of "bot" that could take care of them automatically? — P.davydov 07:55, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

A bot of some sort would probably be the best way. I cannot make any promises on the timeline though. --Feldmahler 14:25, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. that would be really useful. I wish I was technically-minded enough to have a go myself, but the explanations of bots on Wikipedia go way over my head! :-) — P.davydov 14:40, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Removal or reorganization of Composer listings

I have been uploading my compositions to my listing as David Hamlin but I need to reorganize or restart my posting but don't know how to remove stuff once it is already uploaded. Avianne 03:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

I'm not Feldmahler, but what do you need? I can delete the files or the pages or both-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 13:23, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Strange behavior with IMSLP #s

Skipped 74903, and later 74906. Why is this happening?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:21, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

After the server upgrade a few months ago the MySQL server no longer gives out perfectly consecutive index numbers. More precisely, the numbers will jump every time a transaction is aborted (perhaps when resubmitting the same file? I have not tested but it seems likely). Since then I have fixed the software to deal with index number holes (remember the whole hubbub about missing entries on recent additions list and index errors on the forums a few months ago? That was it).
There is probably some rather inefficient way to force consecutive index numbers, but us programmers are strongly urged (by the MySQL people) to not depend on consecutive numbers for performance reasons (which is why the default changed). In fact, they tell us that we should tolerate and accept non-consecutive index numbers. While perfectly consecutive numbers seem nice for IMSLP I don't think it worth it to force the software to do something it does not want to do, and risk breakage in the future. Plus, we can always re-order (or go back and fill gaps) in the index numbering system.
Summary: This is normal, at least for the time being. I would also prefer perfectly consecutive numbers, but since the jumps are rather rare I don't think fixing it is worth it. --Feldmahler 03:43, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

OK. Thanks for the explanation.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 22:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

You really should take a look at

this before one of us messes up and says something wrong.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:08, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Also: User Talk:P.davydov#Category realization.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 17:42, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Parser functions in FTE?

Hi Feldmahler, is it possible to use parser functions in FTE templates? Specifically, can I use a #switch: statement within MediaWiki:FTE:imslpfileentry, or will the wiki explode? --Leonard Vertighel 16:17, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

At this moment no. Unfortunately due to irreconcilable design differences involving variables all functions must be rewritten for FTE templates. If the use of #switch is crucial (and cannot be replaced by #if, or #if would make the template way too cluttered), I can put this on my todo list for the next upgrade. However, if there are not that many clauses (say, 3-4), I would use #if for the time being.
And the wiki will never really explode with a bad FTE template... the worst case would be that the page would show up wrong. The FTE templates are designed to not crash or do weird things regardless of what is thrown at it.
Also, I will be pretty much completely unavailable next week, so I will not be able to respond until after next week. --Feldmahler 19:46, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I guess #if could do, I'll look into it. Or maybe not... guess I'd need #ifeq. I just wanted to try to change the download link visually when a file is blocked, but in order to do that I need to distinguish between [B]/[TB] on the one hand and (EU) on the other hand.
"The FTE templates are designed to not crash or do weird things regardless of what is thrown at it." Is that a challenge? Careful... ;)
Go ahead and try. ;)
I guess I really should work on some documentation for the FTE... if only I could remember how to access the code repository... I'll see what I can do. (Promises...) --Leonard Vertighel 20:14, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't think I've enabled your SVN account on the new SVN server though. I don't mind enabling it after I am finished with the busy stuff for the next little while. Though I really think you know enough about FTE to write docs without looking at the code... the code might only make you more confused. I know it makes me confused. ;)
Yes, #ifeq is the correct function. Remember that the first variable to all the #if functions is a variable name (the type depending on whether & is set in the function name). Just play around with it. However, also remember that while FTE pages can be created at will (e.g. FTE:imslppagetest), the internal variables ({{{int:}}}) will NOT be present (these variables are tied to the specific page).
I'm really gone now... play around with FTE, and if you have any problems you cannot solve I'll be back to answer them in a week. Have fun! :) --Feldmahler 22:55, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Just a note for when you are back: I hardcoded the [B]/[TB]/(EU) in the ~ifeq conditions in MediaWiki:FTE:imslpfileentry for now, because I could not figure out how to do otherwise. I noticed that they are available as messages in MediaWiki:FTE:imslpfile:Messages but not in MediaWiki:FTE:imslpfileentry:Messages, so accessing them via msg: seems to be impossible. If there's a better solution, let me know... --Leonard Vertighel 10:34, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I think that is acceptable. An alternative (though more complex, so probably not a good idea) is that you can add those as messages to FTE:imslpfileentry. You are correct that the FTE:imslpfile messages are not included for FTE:imslpfileentry; FTE:imslpfileentry itself is a strange template in the sense that the majority of its input comes from its parent template (FTE:imslpfile) and not :Messages. --Feldmahler 16:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Open Letter

I know that you're away right now, but you did mention writing an open letter or forum post explicating the (pretty massive actually. They've made the Usage Tutorial semi-useless) changes that have occurred recently.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:54, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I have several other fairly major changes planned, however, I will be very busy right up until the end of September. I'd like to wait until I finish this last (for a while) batch of changes before I write the letter, so the letter may not be out until late October or even November... --Feldmahler 16:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Looking forward to these new changes! Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 21:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

PE looks absolutely brilliant!-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 05:03, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

bump again.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 18:08, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, packed full for a while. If I'm still alive at the end of the month you will see lots of stuff happening around here. --Feldmahler 00:21, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Score Submission

I'm in a compllicated case. You see, there is a score submitted on the wrong page: 2 Mazurkas, B.16 (Chopin, Frédéric). I need to create a new page for this work, and I'm having trouble with how to re-submit a file to a different page. Do I use a pseudo-URL, or someting else? --Lisztrachmaninovfan 03:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm not Feldmahler, but if there are no other files on the page, you can simply move the old page to a new title (using the 'move' tab that appears at the top of most pages). If there are other files, then you can copy and paste the file template (everything from {{fte:imslpfile to }}) from the old page to the new one. Cheers, KGill talk email 14:27, 22 September 2010 (UTC)


Hi Feldmahler. We've recently started to put together manual lists of arrangements by a particular person, e.g. Versions of Works by Others (Godowsky, Leopold). But this is quite hard going, and I was wondering whether there's an automated way to do much the same thing. Let's say that a work page includes an arrangement, the description of which contains the following line:

|Arranger={{LinkComp|Leopold|Godowsky}} (1870–1938)

Can that work page then automatically be added to the category Arrangements and Transcriptions (Godowsky, Leopold) (for example), which would contain a list all works on IMSLP where Leopold Godowsky was identified as the arranger? Maybe this could also be extended to editors, translators, librettists, etc., if you think it's worth doing? — P.davydov 12:08, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi Davydov, sorry for the late reply! This is a very interesting idea. I would most certainly support this general idea, though I would avoid using category titles that may be reminiscent of work pages just to avoid confusion. Rather, perhaps something like "Godowsky, Leopold - Arrangements and Transcriptions" may be better.
In any case, this seems like something that's easy to do via a normal template. If you have any problems tell me. --Feldmahler 15:10, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
OK, I've started Category:Lists of Arrangements, by using the template "{{LinkArr}}". Playing around with it suggests that a manual link from the composer page to "Arrangements by [composer name]" seems better than trying to use sub-categories in the composer template.
I suppose there's nothing to stop us having similar categories in future for editions, translations, and maybe even librettists? For now though it's probably easiest to work through Category:Pages with arrangements to pick out the arrangers... — P.davydov 19:39, 1 October 2010 (UTC)


Hi Feldmahler, would it be possible for me to become a Librarian on the site? I've submitted nearly 800 scores and have proven to be an important member here, particularly in promoting French music. Also, it would give me some clout when users come and tinker with my pages (especially the Massenet, arrgh!) and do more harm than help. Thanks for your time, I know you're busy! Massenetique 20:22, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Done. Welcome to the team! Let me know if you need anything — P.davydov 21:02, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
Thanks! Glad to be officially on board! Massenetique 21:17, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Add work page

Most of the current information on the Special:AddWork page isn't up to date with the current style guides, such as the general information, which was recently written. Administrators (and certinaly copyright reviewers) don't have the permissions to change the page. I don't want to plague you with making such nominal changes, but it is fairly important for standardization. One example is:

Orchestration: Shortened format for orchestra is permitted (3/3/3/2 4/2/3/1 with strings, or similar).

Example: Piano

We have currently decided that a). The shortend format is not longer permitted, because it causes confusion for people not adept in musical shorthand, and b). 'Piano' should not be capitalized.

Not to be a curmudgeon, though :).

I've revised some things to make it more up to date with the current manuals of stlye, and would be happy to perhaps post it on the forums, until somebody with the proper permissions can go ahead and change it (again, I wouldn't want to plague you). Just want your feedback, since this is a 'special page'. With kind regards, BKhon 21:15, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

With respect, Ben, I had advocated (in numerous places) that the shortened format for orchestration could be retained as an optional extra field, though it was not preferred as the primary means of presenting the information. When and where was it decided that it was no longer permitted? Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 22:17, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
And not wishing to appear curmudgeonly either, I thought it was agreed that capitalization of instrument names was optional? :-) — P.davydov 22:19, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
@PML. "Is it worthwhile retaining shorthand instrumentations alongside the full expanded instrumentation? (I happen to prefer the brief format for quickly reading off the orchestration of a work, even though I’m aware the format is obscure and inherently contains less information.)". This was never actually responded to on the forums, but all your other suggestions were included. Personally, I feel that while it may be easier for well seasoned musicians/knowledgeable people, it is still quite confusing for some people. I think it better to have the complete orchestration when known. It was decided between steltz and I. Actually though, I think the option should be available, provided an alternate section in the general information field was there.

@Davydov. That was never agreed on. We did, at one point, talk about the optional use of hyphen... perhaps that's what you're thinking of? The current rule is "The names of instruments need not be capitalized.". If there are still disagreements about the current general information guide, feel free to revise it. Actually, if it involves changing the rule, it best be posted on the forums for criticism ;). BKhon 22:46, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Surely "need not be capitalized" means that there's a choice of whether to capitalize them or not? That's not the same as saying "should not" or "must not". Bearing in mind that the instrument names aren't capitalized in the instrumentation categories, this isn't a decision that should be taken lightly, so let's discuss it on the new forum section when it's set up — P.davydov 07:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
(N.B.: See here for the text of that page - any sysop can edit it.) KGill talk email 23:14, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
Interesting, but no use to me :p. Possibly someone can edit it to fit the new manuals of style. Thanks KGill, BKhon 23:48, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
I would oppose any change now, as there's clearly some confusion over what's intended — P.davydov 07:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Bach: Christmas Oratorio

Hi, The page seems to be completely blanked - nothing whatever appears in my browser but white. It's a fairly important page, so I thought you might want to take a look. Carolus 03:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Seems fine now, but please report any further incidences of this (it shouldn't happen). --Feldmahler 05:50, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I would incidentally note that for almost every day in September, the downloads count exceeded 10000, often by a substantial amount.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 14:28, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It looks like we have the same issue with the Campra: Petits Motets. Carolus 20:01, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
Interestingly enough, using &action=edit in the URL works (although it won't let you save the page), so it must be purely a display problem... KGill talk email 20:05, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The problem with the Campra: Petits Motets still exists. If you use the Windows Internet Explorer the connection brakes up and with Firefow there is a blank screen.Shall we renew this category? Bassani

I have a theory of what's wrong, but I need to keep the page blank (i.e. in a state of error) so that I can check if my theory is correct. This page may not be coming back soon, but hopefully when it does there will be no more problems in the future. --Feldmahler 17:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)


Do you know why I could possibly still have the captcha upon login? Sometimes I get the captcha even when I make a simple edit. Do you know of any way this can be fixed? BKhon 19:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It's all a nefarious plot to make you do math problems! ;) Seriously though, you will certainly have the captcha upon login because the software does not know it is you. You shouldn't get it on edits, but perhaps there was an edit conflict or something?
In any case, I've made you an admin, so you shouldn't get captchas when editing anymore. --Feldmahler 17:31, 4 October 2010 (UTC)


It might be a good idea to add the |List Pages= feature to the Performer category pages. Carolus 02:46, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

And, incidentally, the character ⇩ (down arrow) doesn't show up on some computers (unicode thing, I guess)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Is that a Windows thing? It seems to work on both Linux and OS X. --Feldmahler 17:26, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Older versions of IE esp. I tested it on a few machines are fine, old are spotty.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:24, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

If the breakage is not too bad with old machines (i.e. a box or funny characters or something) I would prefer to leave it as is. The symbol is part of the Unicode specification, so people really should upgrade (or use Firefox!) if they cannot see Unicode. --Feldmahler 17:54, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Performer association

Hi Feldmahler. I accidentally became associated to a complete stranger by clicking the wrong link on a performer page! What does that function actually do? Apologies if I missed that lesson :-) — P.davydov 17:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

See the IMSLP:Performers Portal. --Feldmahler 23:29, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Toolbox again

Could we add a link to Mediawiki:Genres under "Librarian tools?" Also, could the current recent changes text go under "Admin Tools?" Regards-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:38, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Could I ask that the recent changes text not be moved to the toolbox? It would create a large amount of clutter there, and there's no reason non-admins couldn't use those pages (well, mainly the first three) anyway. Thanks, KGill talk email 20:00, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I agree that MW:G should be added to Librarian tools. It does seem however that many IMSLP contributors/moderators may not be admins per se, so perhaps the Recent Changes is better as is for the moment... --Feldmahler 17:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

OK, that's fine.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:51, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


Hi Feldmahler,
seeing orphaned files File:PMLP**** I suppose new users try to upload scores but forget (or more likely are not sure) what to write in the mandatory fields Description, File Type and Copyright. After upload they'll see the form again requesting the missing information. However, I guess this is confusing and they just click away the page... Isn't it possible to give default texts for these fields (not visible in the upload form, but just internally)? For example for description ="Complete Score", File Type = "Normal Scans" and Copyright = "Public Domain". If nothing is in the field the software could take the default value, and otherwise the text the user has typed in. That way every upload would be successful and the file(s) inserted to the work page. In case the text/description is wrong (default or text by user) it'll be corrected by the review team anyway. Hobbypianist 19:41, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Another problem is that if the page gets edited or moved, then the file is orphaned.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:14, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, for sure there are several reasons files get orphaned. Also, we don't delete consequently old versions of files... I observe regularly new user's contributions and repeatedly one can see them creating a new work page, uploading scores but then nothing is added. Regarding your point: maybe the work page can be locked during the upload process? Hobbypianist 07:56, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

That sounds like a good idea. Feldmahler?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 14:24, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I worry about a few things:
  1. I have never heard of a way to lock a wiki page without locking the entire wiki, so it may simply be undoable technically. Plus, the software cannot really tell when to release the lock since people can just close the window (in which case the page would be indefinitely locked). Even if doable, I think we should think about whether it is worth the benefit; how many submissions end up orphaned this way? If the number is not high perhaps we can deal with it some other way (e.g. telling people not to move the page when there is no files on it).
  2. Automatically filling the copyright field with public domain seems like a legal problem. It essentially bypasses any affirmative confirmation of a file's copyright status. I don't think it is worth the cost...
  3. The other fields can be filled, however, how high are the incidences of orphan files due to this? It seems to me like providing an easy way out may also end up letting people develop bad habits.
I think the biggest question is how many files are orphaned this way. --Feldmahler 14:50, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
No automatic filling, only if the user doesn't give any info. Actually, I don't quite understand where there's a legal problem. If the file is not reviewed yet it's blocked / not accessible. If it turns out to be still protected in Canada, it'll be deleted in any case no matter how the info in the copyright field is. So, for the rest Public Domain is correct. And we also had an have cases that composers upload their compositions under PD. This is corrected by us during the review process to a CC license. But ok, with regard to the small number of files getting orphaned that way maybe it's not worth the effort. Perhaps some remarks/hints are sufficient. Hobbypianist 19:27, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Old genre categories

Have you any idea why they are still showing up as wanted pages? The wanted links don't appear anywhere on the work pages said to link to them, and the only way to eliminate them is by deleting the line "|Genre=". I can't see any obvious reasons why they're still coming up — P.davydov 09:20, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it may simply be a link cache problem. IMSLP has several unique link features that may well break MediaWiki in this way. It should not have any other effect, and I can rebuild the link cache when necessary, so don't worry about it. --Feldmahler 14:50, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
OK, I won't. Thanks — P.davydov 14:58, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Video Format

We do not presently accept video format on IMSLP, but I think the possibility has a lot of potential. Especially for opera and ballet performances. I'm sure a lot of people may release them under a creative commons licenses, and there are a few PD historical footages out there. What do you think? BKhon 23:14, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I talked to Carolus, and both of us are worried about likeness issues. Likeness is a quasi-trademark protection that occurs in video recordings on top of normal copyright, and it does not function like copyright (no limited term). Unfortunately we don't know enough about likeness laws at the moment to decide whether this is viable or not. We can definitely keep the issue open for the future. --Feldmahler 17:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Harmonia Sacra

Dear Feldmahler! I´ve found in the Nanki Library the "Harmonia Sacra". This is a very important collection of compositions by H.Purcell, J.Blow etc.. Now I have the problem to find a correct category. Is it possible to open a category with the title? Best wishes Bassani

If there is an editor, I'd put it under his/her name. Otherwise, I think we can put it under "Various" as some other compilations are. --Feldmahler 17:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

PDF format

I see this was moved to the second line in smaller type. It's creating lots of line-break problems. I wonder if a better way would be to employ the small PDF icon instead, or perhaps moving either the downloads counter or the rating to the first line. Coincidentally, the site's function appears rather slow and turgid (probably has nothing to do with the move but perhaps increased traffic). Carolus 21:48, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, that one was my fault (see the forums). I'm not sure if it should even be included on the work page at all - maybe it could go on the page for the file itself? KGill talk email 21:59, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I saw that over at the forum. In all of our time up (since 2006, with one interruption), that's the only complaint I've seen about it - though I can see how it could be confusing. Carolus 23:35, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I suppose it was rather a rash decision. I'd be happy to change it back, but I have to agree with Pierre that it is a bit too prominent for the immediate usefulness it offers to the normal user. (Especially since almost every single file on the site is in PDF format - perhaps the text could be displayed only for MUS and SIB files?) KGill talk email 00:28, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

The only other file formats we use are those for soundfiles. I also wonder if we really need that link there at all, since all other formats for scores are deprecated. The problem with moving anything to that second line right now is that it is very much packed with things as it stands, which causes the line-breaks I mentioned. We also had this problem when Feldmahler first installed the download counter, but he fixed it by using the arrow symbol - which is why I was wondering if there were a snall icon that would work in a similar way. Another option might be to change the "pages" to "pp" or "Scan Quality" to "Scan Rating". I'm not even sure how to do that, exactly, though, since both of those appear to be a part of the code. Carolus 00:42, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't find any way to edit those through the wiki either. My computer doesn't show any hint of that line being long enough to cause line breaks (in general at least), but if it's a problem for others then I would be more inclined to take it out of the second line altogether. (Especially as icons can take up a fair amount of space and are more likely to be interpreted as download links - isn't that how CPDL's interface is set up?) KGill talk email 01:07, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

That's a very good point about CPDL - I'd forgotten that they do indeed use the little PDF icon to indicate a download. I've tweaked it some to save a little space for now. We should discuss getting rid of the format notice altogether for scores, since they are basically all PDF (I think we might still have 30 or so DJVU, Sibelius and Finale files lurking out there, which I'd like to get rid of before eliminating it.) Carolus 01:40, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Recent Additions

I assume that the listed was restarted and will need to fill up again?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 18:54, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually the entire backend was rewritten, so yes. It makes possible not only the feeds but also many other nice things in the future. By the way, how well do you think you can do web design? I'm thinking of completely redesigning the Main Page to get rid of most of the text (which should really be moved to the contributor page) and making the recent additions list nicer looking and more prominent. --Feldmahler 19:22, 30 October 2010 (UTC)\
BTW, upon opening IMSLP #30206, I get sent to for the file. What is this?-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:52, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
What indeed? I don’t remember sending my piano reduction of Spem to Indonesia. :-/ Philip Legge @ © talk 03:02, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Hahaha! Its just an alternate mirror server that we are trying. --Feldmahler 18:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Probably not as well as the page deserves, but I could give it a shot.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 21:38, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

A changing gallery of selected thumbnails would be nice. --Ralph Theo Misch 23:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I've asked a friend (>.>) to look at it—Hummingbird.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 23:39, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Basically the idea would be to
  1. remove the contributor section,
  2. condense the intro blurb,
  3. move the recent scores/recordings to the main section of the page (and in a table format with additional info, which is an extension I will be writing),
  4. make the score browsing links much more prominent,
  5. make the page look pretty and neat :)
There will also be a Simplified Submission System (SSS) linked from the main page (but for recordings only at first). SSS will be a project similar to copyright reviewers/librarians, but with lower bar to entry. More details will be forthcoming soon.
Essentially, for now, we can pretend that the recent lists are in table format, and try to simplify the page along lines similar to what I described above. --Feldmahler 18:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Is there any reason for changing the length of recent additinos from 15 to 10? I'd prefer a longer list, but that's of course just my personal point of view. --BoccaccioTalk Email 08:32, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

This looks fine.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 02:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
The purpose was to match the shorter main text of the main page. You can use either the feeds or the "More..." link at the bottom to get a longer list :) --Feldmahler 22:35, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Privacy policy

Not sure if this is the right place to report this, but as things are all work pages have a link at the top right, "Privacy policy", that effectively goes nowhere (well, to a notice of a deleted page) here. While this is of course a known issue, are there plans to replace it or something else etc. ? Eric 02:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


Next time the server is down, could there please be a notification? I had made edits to over 100 Mozart work pages, and every single on the them was lost due to "session data loss". Now I have to start over, and it's a time consuming process (-rant, complain, curmudgeon-). Lndlewis10 03:59, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

This was not a maintenance; one of IMSLP's hard drives crashed. This is actually the first time this has happened in the history of IMSLP. Good thing that the backup worked without a hitch and we didn't end up like CPDL (which lost ~3 months of contributions due to a hard drive failure). Glass half full, etc, etc. :-) --Feldmahler 04:05, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Of course this is my luck. I haven't contributed in months, and I finally get around to making over 500 edits in the past two days, and all but except 20 have been lost. Grr. Lndlewis10 04:14, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Phfft. It's not that bad: Special:Contributions/Lndlewis10 ;)
But seriously, while you certainly have a right to complain, we are actually very lucky for many reasons. First, this occurred at a time when I actually had time to deal with it, and second, the recovery went very smoothly. Plus, I'm now going to look into redundant hard drive solutions as I said before, so that this will not happen again. All in all, not a bad deal I have to say. Now, I'm off to eat dinner at 11:30PM --Feldmahler 04:23, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick recovery!
And at least it didn't happen after I edited all of the Schubert songs....:P-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 04:26, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I thought more was lost than what was actually lost, sorry. I guess I really haven't done too much work after all ;) Lndlewis10 04:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Well, hopefully this won't happen again anyhow :) --Feldmahler 04:32, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope this wasn't one of newer servers we just signed up for! At any rate, glad we were able to dodge the bullet for this one! Carolus 04:34, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Very lucky not to end up like CPDL; thanks for the quick fix. Still, I made over 150 edits yesterday, every single one of which is now lost...*sigh*...fortunately, they won't be difficult do redo (they mainly consisted of grunt work). I guess the most inconvenient thing is the orphaned files. KGill talk email 15:49, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
I feel you. Look at it this way: because of this ordeal, I will most likely be ordering a new server with hard drive redundancy (RAID-1 actually) at the end of December. This means that for the price we paid of about 16 hours we will make sure that this will never happen again. :) And it happened at a time when I was able to respond swiftly too. --Feldmahler 17:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


Looks great. News entry in order and—see above—open letter :P-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 05:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and it only works with V/V/V, and that should definitely be expanded to include urtexts-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 05:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes yes yes... I know the post is overdue ;) I'll try to find time at the end of December to write something. I'll have to try and remember all the changes...
Yes, it currently uses V/V/V. This is actually (informally) a part of our agreement with PE, and IMSLP is always open to including these files as long as PE agrees. That said, I think it may be better to start out smaller and then expand when there are no problems with a very "conservative" set of files. --Feldmahler 15:24, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

So no Urtext? I want my Berlioz! :P
I guess that I'll have to be patient, but memory is one of the reasons that I want this to happen sooner :). Again, New Genres, Recording, EU Server, New Forums, Interface Improvements, and On-Demand Printing seem each to be pretty huge.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 20:39, 27 November 2010 (UTC)



Here are the templates used on Merton files:

  • {{WyattProject}}
  • {{WyattProjectPF}}
  • {{WyattProjectSC}}

There are 879 pages with Merton files, listed at Category:Merton Parts. The e-mail address to be used is:

Thanks, Carolus

Thanks. --Feldmahler 17:24, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
And done. --Feldmahler 01:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll e-mail Theo, who will be delighted. A couple of minor things: 1) The link name should be "Petrucci-Merton" or even "PMPS", as it's not actually run by John Harding at Ourtext (who is now the owner of Merton Music), but by Theo Wyatt and some associates; 2) The ordering page should accordingly be named "IMSLP:Ordering a Reprint from Petrucci-Merton Print Service". That's it. Carolus 03:35, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Done. --Feldmahler 03:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
That was fast! :) Carolus 03:49, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, Theo Wyatt just e-mailed. Because of some peculiarities of the UK tax code, they really have to use the name "Petrucci-Merton Booklet Service" instead of "Petrucci-Merton Print Service." I'll be happy to move the page to the new name, but I don't know if you need to modify the template which generates the link first. I added all of Theo's descriptions, prices, etc. to the page already. That should be it, hopefully. Carolus 06:30, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. That's a very weird tax law... --Feldmahler 14:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Open Letter again

Beating a dead horse! Now we have a US server to add to the mix :)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 04:06, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

US Server

Are these files counted in the scores count (shouldn't they be?)? Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:32, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

They are not. Because the scores count is based on the copyright tagger, it would be very hard to include US server scores in the number. This is not to rule out the possibility down the road. --Feldmahler 16:23, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

OK. See the dead horse above (it's a new year!!!!!!!!)-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:03, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Here. Happy? ;) --Feldmahler 15:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Very! Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 16:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)


They're tremendously useful — thank you, and happy new year! — P.davydov 15:46, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for all the work you have done on the category system! (Belated) Happy new year! --Feldmahler 01:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)


Would you like to be a little more precise re: “this evening” for those of us in disparate timezones? ;-) Regards, Philip Legge @ © talk 22:12, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

This is now irrelevant, but I did add the time zone to the later notices. ;) --Feldmahler 01:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I noticed ;-) Philip Legge @ © talk 23:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi Feldmahler, just a short question: I've created the MediaWiki:Faq-url/de, it works and showed immediately the correct link to the German version of the page, also imslpportal-url. However, the MediaWiki:Sitesupport-url/de and MediaWiki:Composerperiod-url/de somehow don't work. Actually, it can't be the whitespace in the link nor the umlaut. Is this a similar problem like with the languages of which some don't show up correctly? ..or just a stupid mistake from my side :-o ? aaah, I just logged out and some titles changed back to English, so probably a cache problem. I was too impatient.... Another point: is it possible to display the texts like "Noten nach" in Browsescores/de correctly with capital letter? Currently only small letters seem to work. Regards, Hobbypianist 21:19, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmm... I think that is a limitation of the Monobook skin (i.e. the layout you see), so probably not, unfortunately... --Feldmahler 01:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi again, MediaWiki:Composerperiod-url/de, MediaWiki:Sitesupport-url/de have been created 13 days ago but still the English pages show up. Hmmm, that can't be the page cache, can it? Do you have an idea? Cheers, Hobbypianist 18:29, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
This is because MediaWiki normally does not translate interface URL links. However, I have added all links in the sidebar (except ones for which this does not make sense, e.g. Recent Changes) as exceptions in the code, which means that this will be fixed within a few days. --Feldmahler 22:22, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


I like the new Renoir, but the text is a lot harder to read. Could you add a translucent rectangle beneath it to make it easier to read? Thanks-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

There is a translucent rectangle right now; it is just very weak (30%). I originally had a higher number, but it made the Renoir look rather less pretty. So I'll think about this. By the way, the portal image can now be changed from the wiki: File:IMSLP_Portal_Background.jpg. --Feldmahler 03:46, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 23:57, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

That's much better-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 03:12, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

OtherLangs Template Bug

Hi Feldmahler. I noticed that on some other langs templates, certain entries show up as red links even when the page exists. The most recent example I noticed is here. Also, when the template is used on a page, the language that shows up as a red link does not appear in the translations sidebar. Would this be possible to fix at some point? Thanks, Lndlewis10 18:59, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

This is a weird bug. Unfortunately it is a problem with MediaWiki and not IMSLP only, so it may take me a while to figure out what is wrong... Is it limited to sv:? --Feldmahler 15:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems that it is not just limited to sv. The bug also affects ko (Korean). Thanks, Lndlewis10 15:45, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Numerical Notation

Hello. I have recently found a very large database which contains a lot of PD scores of Chinese composers. But, it is all in a form of numerical notation. Should I upload them directly, or should I transcribe them into the western musical notation we use? Thanks, --Notnd 10:16, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

I would definitely first upload them as is. If you have time, having a transcribed copy would also be very useful for getting a larger audience. --Feldmahler 15:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

New Main Page Design

I'm not entirely convinced by this new design. Perhaps it is by force of habit, but if one notices Wikipedia's design, for instance, the News (I know, I know, different news) and Featured sections are right there at the top. I liked that aspect of the old layout better. Also, I know that you want to highlight the recordings, and I completely understand the move, but please do not forget the name of the library, nor the fact that most people come here for scores. I think that the best thing to do to rebalance the sides would be what I've done on the Draft page.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 19:42, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I moved the Featured Section back. The balancing problem also seems solved, as long as the News section is kept at a certain length.
Regarding the recordings: the fact that IMSLP is traditionally considered a score library was partially why I dared to move the recordings section above the scores section. People will always come to IMSLP for the scores regardless of where I put the score list (unless I actually took pains to hide the links), whereas I do not want recordings to end up being "out of sight, out of mind." This order change is thus to give recordings a chance, and is not meant to be permanent in the long run. It might make some users uncomfortable, but on the other hand that is almost the point: to make people notice that there is such a thing as recordings on IMSLP, or if they know already, to make them notice it more.
I understand that there must be a debate (even if mostly unvoiced) in IMSLP contributors' minds about whether or not IMSLP should simply stay a music score library. After all, that is what IMSLP is historically good at. Furthermore, there is a good argument that sites like YouTube, which because of its size and corporate backing (i.e. lawyers) does not really need to obey copyright laws proactively, have already pre-empted anything we can do with recordings.
Nevertheless, I feel that recordings on IMSLP are worth a shot. Despite the prevalence of YouTube, I have confidence that the IMSLP community and system can produce a library of recordings of significantly higher quality (both the recordings themselves and the browsing system) than what YouTube can ever offer. And so I want to give recordings a chance on IMSLP. After all, it took several years for score submission to pick up and reach the level we are accustomed to now. --Feldmahler 23:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was arguing against recordings altogether—I wasn't, and this has been a real boon in many respects. Thanks for the changes.-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 00:33, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

No problem :) --Feldmahler 03:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Main page

Hi, Feldmahler. Is it really a good idea to allow for the Main Page to be edited by so many users? N6 (IIb) 03:06, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, historically this protection seems to be adequate, and so maybe it is wise to keep it that way until something happens. Any vandalism can be reversed easily in any case. --Feldmahler 03:24, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

To add (this was written before Feldmahler responded): We're at a time right now where we are trying to develop the main page in terms of both design and simplicity (keeping in mind the idea of usability). Since this site is largely aimed towards the general public, I think that for the time being it's a fair idea to allow regular users to edit the page. Another point I have to support this idea is that we already know what the current administrators are able to do in terms of the main page design, and I think it's fair to say that only few of the moderation team members can implement a design. Apropos, the limitation is... limiting (wonderfully articulated). There may be a regular user willing to redesign the page and do a good job! The worst that can happen is mass vandalism which can easily be reverted anyway. Lndlewis10 03:27, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

In any case, I haven't the faintest idea of where to change the color scheme... @_@ N6 (IIb) 17:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Can't be done by a normal user, because that requires modifying Mediawiki:Common.css-- Snailey (_@/) Talk to Me Email me 18:10, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

What were you planning on changing the color scheme to? Lndlewis10 18:15, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Just minor tweaking. Looked a little too gray to me... N6 (IIb) 19:07, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it's the grey that is bothersome, but rather the organization, color overlaps, and different color schemes that appear throughout. Why not make an effort to make the main page more uniform as a primary goal? Secondarily, perhaps we could work on the basic organization (column - row structure) which tends to be rather appealing and clean-cut. Right now it's sort of disjointed, don't you think? Lndlewis10 19:13, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

I am a strong proponent of "try it" for pretty much everything (except that which would take significant time to undo). Page designs are a very good example of things falling under "try it." :) --Feldmahler 22:24, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


Beautiful! --Ralph Theo Misch 00:45, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Philidor designed it, and yes I agree it is beautiful :) --Feldmahler 04:23, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the banner is beautiful. In fact, I think we should integrate that into the main page. Eventually it'll have to come down (it's not always going to be the 5th year of IMSLP), but how about keeping the banner, but subtracting the part that says "5th anniversary [...]". We've been looking for a new site design, and I think we've found it. If we can keep that nice blue color scheme and balance it with the red that already exists (maybe slightly brighter) it would look nice. Balance all of that with some basic organization, and I think we'll have the most beautiful main page ever! Lndlewis10 00:18, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

I think we should keep the anniversary banner up for another week or two. After that, we can make the changes you propose. Unfortunately I'm horrible with colors, so you will have to lead the charge :) The relevant colors are in MediaWiki:Common.css. You might want to start tweaking the other colors on the main page even in advance of us removing the anniversary banner, since the banner color would stay the same. --Feldmahler 16:24, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Category walker for people

Hi Feldmahler. Any idea why this doesn't do what you might expect? It seems to count correctly, but not to display — P.davydov 11:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually, this technically the correct result. The logic of the CategoryWalker here gets slightly confusing.
Think of the CategoryWalker as answering the question "given all the pages in category X, what other categories are these pages included in?" So with Arrangers the question becomes: Given all the composer pages in Category:Arrangers, what other categories are these composers a part of? None of these categories would be the composers themselves, because no composer category is included in another composer category.
In order to achieve the result you want, you actually need the Multicat extension (it works on individual category pages too). For example, put {MULTICAT:Composers=List of Composers|Performers=List of Performers} (and any other category you want to include there) on any category page. Multicat works with intersects as well, so you only need to create one such page to service all person types.
Of course, it is up to you whether you think this situation warrants creating a specific category page for it. --Feldmahler 16:08, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
That's OK. I've made a tweak in MW:G that should do the trick, now that you've explained. Thanks — P.davydov 20:06, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
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