User talk:Feldmahler/archive

Free public domain sheet music from IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library
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PDF editing

Hi, which application do you use to edit pdf files?

Hi. Personally, I don't have anything that allows me to edit PDFs, but I use PrimoPDF to create PDFs. Still looking for an affordable PDF editor (i.e. freeware). --Sphemusator 11:09, 9 June 2006 (CDT)

It's very easy if your using linux... though it depends on what you mean by "edit". If you mean extracting pages or converting images to PDF, then it's a piece of cake with imagemagick and pdftk (pdftk also has a windows version I think). If you mean editing PDF files like some word processing format, then it's extremely hard (even Acrobat can't do it well). Though... I'm told that either KWord or OpenOffice (I forgot which) can import PDF files... never tried though.

Question about contributing

IMSLP talk:Community Portal#Contributing. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 20:29, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

  • I think it's been two weeks. ;)

Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 17:22, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

    • LOL! It has indeed ;) But I've also been busy like mad (new host, and 139765 [approx. value] problems with it, though currently all technical problems should be fixed... I hope). If you have time, you can write something for me. Basically there are two ways: importing public domain scans from other websites, and scanning them yourself. You can get quite a nice list of websites from the forums (which might be down now, depending on your ISP). --Feldmahler 18:19, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Recent Vandalism

I'm somewhat loathe to suggest this, but something you might consider is disallowing edits for people without usernames. At the very least, you could better control bannings (since, instead of banning an IP, which might be shared, you could ban individual users) and there would be a number of spammers that would be unwilling to invest in the extra time to create an account. Although, since I think at least some of them are automated, you might need something to ensure that account creation isn't.--Emeraldimp 22:32, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

Wow... I actually forgot about that. Now I need to figure out how to enable that feature... --Feldmahler 22:47, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

I think is what you need. :-) --Emeraldimp 13:34, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

Wiki Update

Thanks for letting me know, re: the update. Yes, I have local copies of skin files uploaded. The update wiped out my revision of the MySkin but that may be a blessing in disguise as it still needs some things doing before any fanfares are sounded.

I really feel it's very difficult to improve on the Monobook skin (esp. since the majority seem to feel that it is fully adequate). I did consider some ideas initially involving interactive elements but that would not be possible using CSS alone.

--Sphemusator 13:39, 8 August 2006 (CDT) (8/08/06)

Tell me when your masterpiece is finished ;) --Feldmahler 13:43, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

Thanks for keeping me posted re: the new logo. --Sphemusator 14:04, 7 November 2006 (EST)

submission error

One last thing before breakfast: when adding the file K581-score-a4.pdf for the Clarinet Quintet KV581 (Mozart, Wolfgang Amadeus), i get a file not found, so I can't add the file to the work page. I hope it has not something to do with the cache or the list... And 'Image:Chopin - Berceuse Op57.PDF' was an error, and can be deleted.--Peter 04:27, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

It is possible that the file is still buggy because I also adjusted some other things (now you can resubmit files you already submitted, abeit with a warning). But no, it has nothing to do with the list; anything that have to do with the list is purely on the "warning" level; the submission is complete by the time the script starts to deal with the list. I'll submit it myself and see what happens. --Feldmahler 04:37, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
Strange. I could add the other files to that mozart quintet without a problem. Now that I want to add another file (Lalo-lesclave-a4.pdf)to a new page I created (L'esclave (Lalo, Edouard)), I get the same error!?--Peter 17:33, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
Can you post the exact error message? I won't try submitting it because I want to see the error message you get (I seem to be able to submit fine). Also, does the error message appear on another page, or on the form itself? Also, trying to submit during uploading *will* produce an error (you have to wait for the upload to finish). --Feldmahler 17:34, 31 August 2006 (EDT)
Update: Because I'm going to not have so much time for IMSLP for a few days (I have to set up my new apartment), I just submitted the file for you (and it was submitted successfully). I also installed an error logging feature into the file submission pages, so that if there is an error, I will be able to see what you typed into the boxes, and know what the problem is :) --Feldmahler 05:10, 1 September 2006 (EDT)

Notes for Other Users

Not to be... know-it-all-y, but if you leave comments in a user's Talk page, then it seems to come up with a notice that there's a new message, while it doesn't on the user's page. (Or at least, it does on my local installation), which might help when you're leaving folks messages.--Emeraldimp 22:31, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the tip. I was always confused as to which one made the message show... I should do a few more tests just because there might be something broken with this installation (I don't remember seeing any notices after someone changed my talk page, so I thought it was the user page that made a message show). --Feldmahler 22:59, 27 October 2006 (EDT)
Ok I see the problem... my previous personal page wasn't a real user page, and that's why I wasn't getting messages. Thanks for bringing this up btw. --Feldmahler 23:11, 27 October 2006 (EDT)

main page

i'm not going to edit the talk:main page any more, as you seem to be busy with it, and would create edit conflicts ...:) I think you need to add a width=100% property to the news pane cell...

Ahh... Thank you! I was wondering how to fix that problem --Feldmahler 10:11, 4 November 2006 (EST)

public domain tables

yes, my wording was indeed a little confusing (as is my english!). the only reason for that sentence was that US makes a difference between works published in or outside the US, while canada makes no difference and the policy of EU/Russia about non-domestic publications is not known to me. The only advantage for works published in the US is the 1923-1963 copyright law but that law is very difficult to achieve, the only advantage for IMSLP would be the years 1956-1963, and it would raise more confusion. So I agree that we let go the difference between domestic and non-domestic publications... cheers, Peter 19:21, 12 November 2006 (EST)

btw, what do you think of a "Links" link in the left pane to make the links page more visible? I somewhere heard that a site gets a higher Google ranking the more links are made.

Hmm... do you mean the external links page? That is possible, though, I think Google ranks a website higher when other websites link to it, not the other way around... but I'm not sure. My main concern is that letting the left panel have too many items might make it too crowded (that's partially why I took out the site stats link too)... but if there is a good reason for putting it there, it'd be fine though. Maybe it's a good idea to look up Google docs about how they list websites? I'll look into that myself soon. --Feldmahler 20:27, 12 November 2006 (EST)

about Public domain tables

Hi Feldmahler, I've been translated de new pagee of "Public domain" and have some trubbles with de right tranlation of some words. I don't know exactly what's the right tranlation of "editor" that in spanish have many meanings, so I hope that you say to me exactly that is what do you say with "editor" (in other words what is an editor do). Thnaks. Mr. Moonlight 17:28, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Hi Mr.Moonlight. By "editor", what is meant is someone who prepares a score for publication: someone who corrects typographic errors (or what him/her thinks are typographic errors), inserts footnotes and the like, and sometimes even does bowings or fingerings for the instruments.
I do not know if this helps, but I looked up "editor" on Wikipedia and this is the corresponding page in Portugese (couldn't find a Spanish one)... the definition of editor is more or less the same as on that page, except of course on IMSLP the editors edit music and not anything else :) --Feldmahler 19:01, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Deletion Candidates

Hi again! Thought I'd point you to Category:Aperghis, Georges since I'm not sure we can distribute any of his pieces. --Emeraldimp 12:29, 12 December 2006 (EST)

Thanks for reminding me. I actually haven't checked that deletion category in a while (didn't notice the tag has been added to a few pages). I noticed the files come in, but thought it had the consent of the composer. I guess I'll e-mail him and see what happens. --Feldmahler 15:16, 12 December 2006 (EST)

Poor Wandering One

I, er, uploaded a file without adhering to the upload guidelines (name of composer in filename). Sorry. Should I reupload, or can it be fixed? PoorWanderingOne.pdf --Emeraldimp 18:58, 16 December 2006 (EST)

Don't worry about it :) Just remember to include the composer name next time and all is fine. --Feldmahler 22:33, 16 December 2006 (EST)

Gade: Elverskud, Op. 30 (The Erl-King's Daughter)

Hi Feldmahler,

I think that there is an error in where the file for this work (a PDF of the manuscript FS from the Copenhagen Royal Library) has been placed. As I mentioned to Peter: "Thanks for posting the MSS for this work here. Really interesting. I think that it has somehow been placed in the wrong work's page, namely that of the ballet Et Folkesagn (A Folk Tale), Link:"

I expect this is something that only you can fix. At any rate, IMSLP continues to grow. I think it is probably the best site anywhere on the net for finding public domain scores. Congratulations to yourself, Peter and all of our other contributors for their great additions.

Best Wishes,


Actually, the only thing I can do that Peter can't is delete pages... everything else I can do he can do also. And this goes for everyone :) Also, I see that Peter has already fixed this problem...
Thanks for the complement, it goes for you too :) --Feldmahler 05:17, 18 December 2006 (EST)

Scan quality question

Hi again! I just finished scanning and uploading Schubert's Quintet, but I have a problem: my scans are in greyscale, so their file is quite large (78MB), but when I convert them to monochrome, the quality is bad (see the pdf). Is there a recommended way to convert to monochrome, or is it better to simply scan as B&W and go from there? Also, I can upload the better-quality version if you like. Thanks again! --Emeraldimp 21:36, 20 December 2006 (EST)

Ok. I should've tested first, before I scanned the entire piece. Future submissions will be scanned in B&W, but I'd rather scan a new piece than rescan, so I'm uploading the greyscale by movement. --Emeraldimp 11:29, 21 December 2006 (EST)

main page

looks pretty damn nice!

A Witt 04:04, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Hehe :) Thanks mainly to you! --Feldmahler 04:12, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Using ZIP instead of many many many PDF files?

this message is forwarded from my talk page. --Peter 20:51, 26 December 2006 (EST)
Hey there again... I have all of Scarlatti's sonates for harpsichord. However, there are 175 of them :O I was thinking that uploading them in groups of 25 (as they are small in size, and groups of 25 wouldn't be larger than, say, 600-700kb in total, after being zipped) would be much more convenient, as uploading by hand and making files entries for 175 pieces can be a real PITA (sorry for the expression) (and sorry for saying "wth" in my previous comment too, I was just a bit surprised...). If not, then I'll try to upload 10 pieces a day and have it ready in half a month or something (because I want to upload other stuff too). Also, I hope there is no "flooding" problem with uploading too many pieces, as i have, in such a short timespan, or else tell me and I will reduce my frequency of uploads (I am just too excited to take part in this :D :D ). Thank you for your time again, take care! :)

Proposal for new categories

Hi again! First, have you heard back from Georges Aperghis? Just following up... Secondly, what do you think of a "Category:IMSLP:Files for Copyright Review" and a "Category:IMSLP:Reviewed Copyright", so that we don't have to immediately mark some scores for deletion, and so that we can keep track of which ones have already been cleared? As the site grows, we may need to be more vigilant (more visitors = more publicity (good, but) = more likely someone will find something they can sue over. ;-) ) Best, --Emeraldimp 01:34, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Yeah, I decided it would be easy enough to delete them if you didn't like them, and it is a wiki. Hope your trip went well! --Emeraldimp 01:24, 28 December 2006 (EST)
It went quite well indeed... thanks for asking! :) --Feldmahler 14:45, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Clean URL

If you want to get rid of the /index.php?title=, clean url is the answer
changes to

here's the info...

A Witt 16:21, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Thanks for the tip! I will check it out. I wanted to do it before, but in the mediawiki LocalSettings.php it says that clean urls are only possible if the PHP is not running as CGI, which it is, unfortunately :( But I'll check out that page and see if there is a workaround :) --Feldmahler 23:49, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Concerning Nikolas Sideris

Hello :D I want to inform you that I have already sent an e-mail to the composer, and I've received a reply, but due to compatibility problems with the fonts, I kindly asked him to resend his reply.

Thank you very much for your offer, though, and sorry for any problems/misunderstandings I caused.

Is it possible for you to forward the e-mail to me? I can try to get the correct fonts/encoding ( Thanks! And don't worry about any problems... it always takes a bit of time to get used to a new wiki's way of doing things :) --Feldmahler 14:45, 28 December 2006 (EST)

More Copyright stuff

Hi, I noticed a couple of minor things amiss:

1) There have been some Poulenc works added that are
a) copyright in Canada (all of Poulenc's are protected there since he died in 1963); and
b) almost certainly copyright in the USA (published 1923 or later).

2) Stravinsky's Histoire du Soldat is listed as being PD in the US. Not true - it was published in 1924 by J. & W. Chester, Ltd. and "restored" under the GATT/TRIPs law in 1996. The so-called "Suite" for Violin, Clarinet and Piano was published in 1922 and is therefore PD.

The safest way to handle any work published 1923-1963 is to assume that such works are proctected in the USA. The burden of proof is on the poster to demonstrate that a)no renewal registration was filed 28 years after publication and that no NIE (Notice of Intent to Enforce) was filed under the restoration of foreign copyrights provision of GATT/TRIPs. For the USA, all works - whether the composer, arranger, or editor died in ancient times or lived until quite recently (like Irving Berlin) - first published in that 40 year interval have a very high potential of still being under copyright. The "Public Domain" page here at IMSLP is quite good overall, but the charts are still a little confusing with respect to US copyrights as they appear to imply that post-1922 works of composers who died more than 70 years ago are PD, which is not the case. Composers like Gershwin and Ravel are particularly problematic in this regard. The composer's date of death does not come into play for determining copyright term until 1978 or later for published works, and 2003 for unpublished works. Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue (published 1924) will be protected in the USA through 11:59 PM on December 31, 2029 regardless of its status elsewhere.

The rule of thumb for US copyright status:
Published (regardless of composer's death date) 1922 or earlier = PD
Published (regardless of composer's death date)1923-1963 or later = Copyright unless you can prove otherwise
Published 1964-1977 = Copyright
Published 1978 and later = Copyright
Unpublished (manuscript), last surviving author died 70+ years ago = PD
Unpublished (manuscript), last surviving author died <70 years ago = Copyright

IMSLP is already the most important respository of free downloadable music on the internet. I plan to continue to upload files as I collect them for various sources.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention! I didn't notice the Poulenc category reemerge (I was away for the past few days), but I'll clean it up :) I'll also clean up the Soldat in a few hours (currently I'm struggling with some problems with the host).
Also, thanks for patrolling IMSLP and pointing out these problems! I agree that it is much better to play safe, as IMSLP already has a fairly large collection :) It's a good idea to somehow make this clear on the public domain page... I don't have time right now, but I'll put it on my todo list... unless you have some free time to fix the public domain page? --Feldmahler 16:17, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Thanks, Feldmahler. I added US expiration dates for those Ravel works still protected, PD status for those that are free. I plan to do the same for Gershwin and some other murky cases. At Peter's kind suggestion, I also made a couple of slight modifications to the very helpful copyright tables he created, along with a slight change of wording for the non-PD US and EU template to account for the fact that there are plenty of works (by Ravel, for instance) that are free in the US even though the composer died less than 70 years ago. Pre-1978 works have the copyright term determined by publication date in the US. -- Carolus 28 December 2006 (EST)

I've just started uploading some things to you here, and I must tell you I am quite new to Wiki projects and the like. I uploaded some scores that were published in the former Soviet Union in 1954, and I was wondering if you consider these in PD like other publishers (Dover, Kalmus). Also, isn't there some Poulenc that was published before 1923, and therefore in PD? --Goldberg988 17:23, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Well... if the scores are published in 1954 they are public domain insofar as the publisher is concerned (the composer copyright is another thing, and that copyright is life+50; see the public domain page for more information). About Poulenc, there are indeed files which are in the public domain in the US, but the three pages I deleted were not among them :/
Also, welcome to IMSLP! And thanks for your contributions :) --Feldmahler 17:56, 29 December 2006 (EST)

Here's a question for any experts on Canadian and EU copyright laws out there: Does the term run to the end of the 50th or 70th year following the last surviving author's death? Take Ravel as an example. He died in 1937 (December as I recall). Would the copyright term of life plus 70 then run to the end of 2007 instead the end of 2006? In other words, does the clock start running in the calendar year after the one in which the author died (1938 in Ravel's case)? I am only periphally familiar with Canadian and EU statutes. The term always runs to the end of the year in US law, so a work published in 1930 gets a full 95-year term running until 12/31/25 only entering the public domain on 1/1/26. To give another US example, on New Year's Day 2007, all unpublished works of composers and authors who died in 1936 will enter the public domain due to the operation of the provisions that came into force in 2003. If the terms are calculated in the same way as in the US statute, all the composers who died in 1937 will remain copyright in the EU until 1/1/2008 (and so on). I note that some Gershwin titles have been posted from Porgy and Bess. These are definitely protected in the USA, so I will add the appropriate warning to those pages. They are PD in Canada, of course, but tthey might be protected for another year in the EU and elsewhere.

BTW, I just had a conversation with the principal librarian for a major orchestra here in the US who informed me that a number of publishers are in the process of forming a group to crack down on the ever-growing number of sites who offer free downloads of sheet music that is under copyright. Goldberg988, Yes there are a few early Poulenc works that are free in the US, including the famous Mouvements Perpetuels. I think Feldmahler can arrange to host those particular files in the US if you happen to have scans available. Soviet editions of earlier works (like the Balakirev piece you posted) have somewhat of a murky status in the US - in contrast to Shostakovich and Prokofiev, most of whose works were "restored" under the GATT/TRIPS amendments. If the composer has been dead for more than 70 years, you're probably OK. As you pointed out, both Dover and Kalmus continue to offer reprints of editions from Muzika, some of which are as recent as the 1960s and 70s. This is likely due to a limited term for editions under Russian laws. While some EU countries offer a limited term for a re-engraving (an edition that is substantially the same as the PD original), US case law offers no protection for "mere typographic variation." Happy New Year to all.
-- Carolus 29 December 2006 (EST)

Very good question about the exact year the work enters copyright. I checked the copyright act, and here is the relevent section:
6. The term for which copyright shall subsist shall, except as otherwise expressly provided by this Act, be
the life of the author, the remainder of the calendar year in which the author dies, and a period of fifty
years following the end of that calendar year.
Which would mean that it is the same as in the US (i.e. clock starts ticking a year after the composer dies).
Also, thanks for the heads up... that was quite surprising. I never imagined that online music scores would as of yet pose such a threat that the publishers would be willing to band together and fight it.
And happy new year to you too :) I'd also like to thank you for the effort you've put into IMSLP (and enlightening me about many copyright issues hehe)! --Feldmahler 03:36, 30 December 2006 (EST)

Hello again, I updated some of the templates and added a new one for works that are free in the USA , Canada and the life+50 countries but likely protected in the EU and all of the life+70 countries. I've put a green "Public domain in the USA." line on the individual works pages for those composers (Bartok, Ravel, Schoenberg, Rachmaninoff, et al) where confusion is frequent due to the fact that a portion of their output was published after 1923 even though there are earlier pieces that are PD in the US. I also continued to add US expiration dates for those works that are still protected here in the US. I hope that these warnings, etc. will have the effect of rendering IMSLP more-or-less 'bulletproof' from the legal action that is currently under consideration by the MPA (Music Publishers' Association) against websites and hosting services that make printed music available for free download. Drop me a line at my yahoo email account if you get a letter. As things stand, it is quite obvious to anyone reading the various warnings and copyright info on the pages here that IMSLP is interested in providing only public domain works or works where the composer/editor has given permission for free distribution under the Creative Commons license or something similar. BTW, you might wish to move any works by Percy Grainger to a USA host as I'm faitly certain he's still protected in Canada.

One minor thing - the term for music that has been "re-typeset" (I don't think "retypesetted" is actually a word) is "re-engraved." Strictly speaking, the term 'engraving' is inaccurate as even G. Henle abandoned plate engraving about 12-15 years ago (they were the last najor holdout). However as with the term 'typesetting' or 're-typeset', the older word is used for the computerized counterpart to the original activity. (Since my 'day job' consists of managing all the US Finale and Sibelius engraving for a major publisher, I couldn't help but to notice!) Also, is there a way you can create a new category for "manuscripts"? I've been uploading a number of PDFs that I created from JPEGs of manuscripts for several composers. -- Carolus 31 December 2006 (EST)

Very good call about the manuscripts! I was designing the file type system with only typesets and scans in mind, but I think it is a very good idea to make this system extendable beyond only two selections. I'll add a "manuscript scans" option in a moment (and restructure the template).
Thanks for the heads up for Grainger; I'll move them right after I finish extending the submission type system. :) Also, a big thanks for tagging the work pages! It was long overdue.
About the usage of "typesetting"... I had a vague idea that most publishers have converted to computerized scores, and now I know that it's true :) But the main reason I made that distinction is to seperate scans of published typesets vs. submissions of unpublished typesets, as the two demand slightly different things from the File template, plus it gives more information to the IMSLP user. Another reason is to make providing the typesetter name mandatory for unpublished typesets, to increase the amount of information detail in the submissions to IMSLP :) It is for the same reason that I have also made the File Description field mandatory (wasn't before).
The reason I used the term "Retypeset" is to emphasize that typesetting like what the Mutopia project does should be put into that category. I don't think the word "retypeset" is an official English word... but there seems to be scattered usage here and there (there are a [very] few matches for the word on the English Wikipedia), and (I hope) enough people understand it for it to be useful (mainly Mutopia-type scores) :) But this is not set in stone; once I fix the file type system to include more than two choices, the name of the types should be very easy to change, so if I see that there is no need to use the word "retypeset" I can simply remove it :) Thanks for clarifying the meanings though. --Feldmahler 05:12, 31 December 2006 (EST)

favicon of the site

Hey, I thought that IMSLP should have a favicon, so I did some tests and here are my results: icons.html

If you like anyone, simply save it and use it as you will. If you don't, then nevermind :D :D I didn't spend more than 5 minutes making them anyways :P Take care! ~ jujimufu 19:02, 29 December 2006 (EST)

I really like the fourth one! But I can't put it on IMSLP because I can't seem to convert it to an ICO file :/ Also, is it possible to move the common time signature up a line? Since the common (C) time signature should show up between the middle three lines... Otherwise I really like it :) --Feldmahler 19:45, 29 December 2006 (EST)

favicon of the site

I don't know how to do the "reply" thingie, with the indented answer, so I'll just reply here :)

Thanks for using it :D Although I think I can make it better. I'll see what I can do and send you any results :)

BTW, I am almost sure that you can use .png's as favicons, there is no problem with that. Anyway, suit yourself, it works fine anyway :D

And, concerning the e-mail, I can send it to you, but the problem is that by receival, because greek requires that 8th bit in the encoding, I -for some reason- received the e-mail in 7bit, and thus the 8th bit is chopped out, and as a result, almost all characters look like question marks, apart from english characters and symbols. I will try and send it to you, and if you can do anything with that, then good :D However, I sent him an e-mail asking him to save what he sent me in an .rtf and e-mail that as an attachment, and he hasn't replied to my e-mail for two days now. Maybe he's just lazy and won't resent them, maybe he's too busy, I don't to make hasty assumptions, but on the other hand, it's not such a big deal, it's just a copy paste. Anyway, I'll send them, and good luck :) -jujimufu 09:25, 31 December 2006 (EST)

Happy new Year

Happy new Year to you, too! :-)

To answer your question: Actually, I am a conservatory student - but only 50% :-). I used to study music full time but that was kind of supersaturating. So I decided to study psychology besides my music studies as an alternative. Requires some organizing skills, though - but it's worth it! What instrument do you study? And guess mine... --Karin Bütler 13:53, 31 December 2006 (EST)

Chopin forever :-)

Could it be that you're a pianist? ;) I'm a composition student :) --Feldmahler 12:03, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Another Copyright Alert

First of all, a Happy New Year to all at IMSLP!

It looks like Manuel DeFalla's Siete Canciones Populares Espanolas have been posted in a transcription for piano solo by the Spanish composer Ernesto Halffter (1905-1989), that was published by Eschig in 1951. This is most likely not PD in the USA, and almost certainly still under copyright in Canada - not to mention the EU, etc. Also, it might be a good idea to move the MSS of Ernest Bloch's Schelomo to the US server, as would appear that the work is PD in the USA only. -- Carolus 1 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the notice. I'll move the Bloch right away (and delete the DeFalla piece) :) --Feldmahler 12:03, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Greek Translation

Hey there again! I'd like to take up the translation of this site into Greek :D I think I can do it, and pretty quickly too. So, what do I have to do in order to do so? I mean, what pages would I have to edit and stuff. Thanks for the info again! :) Cheers!

Hey there again! Concerning the greek translation, it's just doing great! I'm working really fast (I decided to finish off with small articles first, and now I'll do the public domain articles, and then I'll look on how I could do the Browse:Composers and stuff. But I still have one question: How are we going to translate the menus and the personal links in greek? As in, this is how things are in other wikis, and in particular, wikipedia. And it really would be pointless to translate the whole thing, without translating the main guide-links of the whole site.
Actually, you can go to "my preferences" and change the language you are viewing the wiki in, but this is not autodetected (this is on my to-fix list, but I haven't poked around the code enough to know how to do this, especially since I can't really change the user preferences on the fly, or else havoc would ensue...). The reason Wikipedia is so comfortably multilingual is because it is not one single wiki, but a collection of wikis, each language being a separate wiki. This can't really be done on IMSLP since the maintenance costs of such a setup is *huge*.
So I've basically been adding multilingual auto-detect features to the original Wikipedia software. Currently, it can do two things: 1. change the language of the main page (or really any page, though I've only used it on the main page as of yet) using the browser request (autodetection), and 2. change the language of the template using the browser request via the IFLANG construct. The second can be added by anyone, but the first requires code support, so I have to manually add it (I'll add Greek into the code in a few minutes).
Hope this answers your questions! --Feldmahler 15:00, 2 January 2007 (EST)
Actually, after thinking a bit, I believe there should be a way to do autodetection on the entire wiki (menus, etc.); I'll dig around the source to see if it can be done and how. Btw, I've added Greek, so if you open in a browser requesting Greek, the main page should show up in Greek :) --Feldmahler 15:26, 2 January 2007 (EST)
Heya again :) I've translated a big load of pages into Greek, although there are a few major pages to be translated. Although in the IFLANG test page, the greek shows up fine with my browser requesting greek, the main page shows up always in English. And concerning the greek menus, I've temporarily fixed that by asking the greek viewers to go to "my preferences" and change "Language" to "el-Ελληνικά" if they want their menus in Greek (I put it in a red box so they'll notice it). However , there is stil the issue of the links of the menus, which actually link to the english pages instead of the Greek ones (all except the Main Page link, which leads normally to the greek main page). Anyway, I hope we finally get all of this sorted out. I might as well get a friend of mine do the portuguese translation :) That'd be nice :D Take care! ~ jujimufu 07:39, 3 January 2007 (EST)
Well... if you are requesting "", the page will always show up in English, but if you are requesting "", the page that shows up should be the Greek version. This is because "Main Page" is always in English, just like "Κύρια Σελίδα" is always in Greek :) If you tried "" and it still doesn't work, you might have to clear your browser cache.
Adding other languages to the navigation bar is not a big problem, and I can add it easily, but one of the reasons I've not done so is that most of them are dynamic and always changing, plus most of them are also based on user comments. One of the problems with translating user comments is that it is a lot of work, and pages almost never stay in sync properly (unless the translator is willing to translate every user comment that comes in...) For example, even now two out of the three translations does not have an up to date news page ;) This is in no way the translator's fault; rather, it is merely a testament to how hard it is to keep multiple language pages in sync. This is why I would rather only have the static pages translated, and leave the dynamic user-comment pages alone... I don't think that the alternative is really humanly possible, unfortunately :( I am jealous of Wikipedia, and how it doesn't have to worry about such matters very much, since they seem to be building almost entirely separate encyclopedias, even if there is some translation between languages. On IMSLP even the static pages sometimes change (like the Public Domain page), so even keeping static pages in sync is not that easy, but possible.
I've also tried within my power to make IMSLP as multilingual possible... like I said in the latest news entry I've added automatic language detection for anonymous users, and language selection on signup. In the end, there is no way to make any single language on IMSLP be 100% (even English, though admittedly it is as of now closer to 100% than any other language simply because of the user base), and so there will always be parts of IMSLP which is unreadable to a user not fluent in that lauguage. Also, I'm in no way against a user posting comments in a different language; it is just that the user might not get a response unless there is a large enough community of people on IMSLP who use the same language.
But there is no reason to feel hopeless! :) I think that it is a great thing IMSLP is now more accessible to people from different parts of the world... indeed that is the original intention of the IMSLP. However, just like any social gathering, there must be compromises made on the part of all parties involved. Yet, I believe this is nothing compared to the fact that IMSLP now becomes useful to much more people :)
Also, my thanks to you, Mr.Moonlight and Karin for the translations! And yes, a Portugese translation would be a very nice thing :) --Feldmahler 17:25, 3 January 2007 (EST)
Well, I was thinking about translating only the static content of the pages with changing content (such as the portal, or tasks page) and then having links to the other portals, and just let each user leave their comment there, in their language, and the person responsible for those pages will transfer it to the english page, and the replies from there back to the original person. This could work, and would be much easier, as the posts in those semi-static pages aren't THAT many (at least, not at the moment).
Well, we could always try and see if it works :) This is a wiki after all hehe (and this is one of the good things about it) :)
Moreover, I contacted Nikolas Sideris again, and he's not only giving us permission to display his works, but he's also thankful for that, as long as we provide a link back to his site (which we do). Cool :D I'd like to meet him, his works seem interesting, and he's a composer, he could provide feedback (just like you, but I guess you're too busy with your studies, so unless you really want to, I wouldn't want to interrupt :P).
Give my best regards and thanks to Mr.Sideris :) Also, I like looking at other composer's scores... just that I'm a pretty harsh critic, so be warned :P I know at least one composer who now hates me for me critisizing his work on request.
Lastly, yes, language-requested pages work now, looks like greek to me, haha :D I still have left important pages such as the Public Domain pages out, but I'll translate them in due time (they are big and have many terms for which I need a dictionary, that's why I've left these out). Oh, and one last thing: what about, like, the Category:Composers page? Is there any way we could translate this into other languages? All I can translate is these two links, but we should do the rest. These, along with some of the special pages, such as the Upload page, and Add Work/Composer pages, they would need to be translated too.
Actually, I'm going to make the Composer page into a template tomorrow, and once that's done I'll create the Composer page equivalent of the "Transform" special page, and we can convert all the composer categories into templates. With that done, IFLANG should take care of the translations easily :) About the Add Work/Composer pages, you can actually just send me the translation via e-mail and I'll add it to the code.
Anyway, cheers! Take care and thanks for replying :) Feedback means a lot :P ~ jujimufu 17:54, 3 January 2007 (EST)
Hehehe :) --Feldmahler 01:35, 4 January 2007 (EST)

German Translation

Hello Feldmahler! Since nobody replies to my posting in the forum, I just write it here as Jujimufu's request got answered quickly :-). Anyway, I'd offer to translate IMSLP to German - I'm a native speaker and certainly write better in German as in English - so, no need to worry :-). I thought I'd just copy the (original) english site's wikitext and paste it to a new page and edit the text there (because I can probably not encode things like the cool scrollbar on my own...). Well, just tell me :-) --Karin Bütler

By the way: Where are the useful tools that used to be on top of every editing page (just had to arduously type in my signature :-))?

Schubert Scores

Hey there again :) How are you? I am just leaving a note because I was having doubts concerning the names of the scores in the Schubert page. I started uploading scores today, but I uploaded collection of scores, such as the Ecossaises, the German Dances, the Landler and the Minuets, and as soon as I uploaded some of the Ecossaises, but naming them like "8 Ecossaises, D.X" and "3 Ecossaises, D.Y", Peter renamed/moved them to "Ecossaises, D.X" and "Ecossaises, D.Y". I thought that, since he has been a member for longer than I am, he must know something more, yet I am having doubts about it, firstly because it makes it easier to remember "3 Ecossaises, D.128" than "Ecossaises, D.128" (which you might confuse with any other "Ecossaises D.X" submission if you're not good in remembering numbers), and secondly because in almost every other composer's page, I've seen the numbers go first (e.g., the Brahms page and the Moszkowski page). Anyway, I will leave them in the manner that Peter corrected them to, until I receive further response. Take care! :D :D ~ jujimufu 08:40, 7 January 2007 (EST)

I'm pretty good, thank you :)
This has been part of a fairly long debate (in my mind)... I was rather undecided at first, but decided to go with what Peter was doing (i.e. removing numbers before the title). But now he has suggested something that gets the best of both worlds on the Community Portal (number and sorting), and I will add this new functionality to the "Add Work" page (i.e. making the page sort in the category correctly with [[Category:blehbleh|nametobesortedby]]). So there shouldn't be a problem now :) --Feldmahler 19:44, 7 January 2007 (EST)
Hey, that's not bad at all :D I sorted properly all of the Schubert scores, and I'll sort any other scores I come along that are not properly sorted. You should do something similar for the Opus number. Like, make it in a way like [[Category:composers_name|title|opus_X|no_Y]] so that it will sort normally the works by the title, and have a function on every page (the "composer" 's page template maybe) which you would click and it would sort all its works by catalog or opus number. I don't know if that's possible (haven't been a lot into wikis, just the necessary), but if it is, why not give it a try? Or have it like [[Category:composers_name|title|{Opus_Number}]] or whatever the field for Opus number is (I still don't know if that'll work).
Well... this might have to be done by hand :/ The problem is that there are many differnet kinds (labels) of opus/catalogue numbers (Op, KV, S, etc.) and sometimes even more than one (or two) opus/catalogue number per work, which means that it is rather hard to automate this process, since there is no clear thing to search for. Plus, the wiki internal database only allows 1 sortkey per page-category; and so to implement this I would have to alter the database setup, which I'm rather reluctant about doing since it will break compatibility between IMSLP's wiki and a normal Mediawiki, which would mean upgrade headaches. But yes, the idea is a good one, and some composers (Chopin) already have their own opus-number sorted page :) --Feldmahler 11:18, 9 January 2007 (EST)

About language system

Hello! I'm trying to make a multilingual project like you, and I would like to know how you made the automatic language predefinied based on browser language. How you made different Main Pages? Is possible to do different Community portals, etc? Thanks for your help! --Estemon 15:06, 12 January 2007 (EST)

Well... my advice would really depends on how comfortable you are with the PHP language. The automatic selection of different language Main Pages are really hard-coded into the PHP code itself. Also, it would theortically be possible to do different community portals and etc., provided that Mediawiki uses only one key for the lookup of the page title i18n-wise (which in the Main Page's case is 'mainpage'). Though, this breaks once the pages are requested via page title and not key lookup, which is why the different language Main Pages on IMSLP have different titles.
Another thing that might interest you is this extension, which you might find useful. If you don't want to meddle with Mediawiki internal code per se, using these extensions might be the way to go, even though they are somewhat inefficient (it's a tradeoff).
Also, it might be a good idea to think whether it is not better to use multiple wikis (like Wikipedia), and avoid this whole ordeal in the first place; as it is, my hacks are rather a pain to maintain (i.e. during Mediawiki upgrades), even when I keep the diffs. The reason I still went single wiki with IMSLP is because most of the stuff on IMSLP is really language-independent, and so having one wiki would make more sense. I don't know what your wiki setup (and goal) is like...
In any case, I would have to know how comfortable you are with PHP, and how much you want to mess with internal Mediawiki code in order to give any further advice :) --Feldmahler 15:49, 12 January 2007 (EST)
Hi, and thanks for your reply ;) I thought in a multiple wiki possibility, but like you, make some wikis for a project language-independent was innecessary. I know the PHP code as a medium user. (the necessary for discover where is located an error and, if I don't know how to solve it search solutions somewhere. I was seen the extension you talk about but I don't like it, because I want to make a tab system for switching languages. You can see it running here. It runs well and a Spanish user (the basis language of system) could nav for Spanish-translated pages, and a English user can do the same, but the only little problem is the main page and navigational menú. I tried to change the MediaWiki:Sidebar every language I use, but the system ignored it and changing language instalation files (LanguageEn.php, for example) not runs too...
Probably you think "wow, is asking me how to make the same project as I'm making!!". Really, my project is the same as yours. But I'm working on it for more than 2 years and a half and is for me an "ancient illusion"... Of course, if you want to use something from there you're welcome to use what you want freely!! ;) Thanks for your help and comprension - Estemon 11:35, 14 January 2007 (EST)
Hahaha I see competition for IMSLP ;)
Well... what I did for that is first disable sidebar caching in function buildSidebar() in Skin.php. Then I intercepted wfMsgForContent() in GlobalFunctions.php so that it will go through my 'mainpage' key page chooser function first. And then, the crux of the entire thing is this function, which is modified from a similar function I found in a PHP How-To guide somewhere on the net:
function chooseLang ( $langarray )
	foreach(explode(',', $_SERVER["HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE"]) as $lang)
		if (preg_match('/^([a-z]+)[^;]*;q=([0-9.]+)/i', $lang . ';q=1.0', $split))
				$pref[sprintf("%f%d", $split[2], rand(0,9999))]=strtolower($split[1]);
	$junk_1 = array_intersect($pref, $langarray);
	if( count( $junk_1 ) == 0 ) return '--'; //None matched
	else return array_shift( $junk_1 );
Basically, it takes an array of languages, and intersects it with the user requested languages, and return the best match (if there is any). I use this in the 'mainpage' chooser function to determine the page name of the page to return to the user. :)
Hope this helps! If you have any more questions, feel free to ask :) --Feldmahler 12:54, 14 January 2007 (EST)
That was for the mainpage link and not the language of the sidebar; if you want to change that you will have to intercept _newObject() in class StubUserLang in StubObject.php. This is where $wgLang is unstubbed; it normally defaults to the wiki language (or the one in the user preferences), but of course you can change that :) Should be fairly easy, except... beware of making an infinite recursive loop ;) You cannot use $wgLang in that function or else there'd be an infinite recursion of unstubbings (good thing the Mediawiki system alerts you even if that happens... or else I'd have to go through much more pain than I had). --Feldmahler 13:18, 14 January 2007 (EST)
Ok. I have now some hours to study and improve it :P Tomorrow I'll try to implement it. Thanks for your help, is so useful!! - Estemon 15:56, 14 January 2007 (EST)

file submission form

Hi feldmahler, What do you think of adding the thumbnail and sample filename fields to the file submission form? It would save me a deal of time when submitting new files, but I thought maybe you had some reservations about adding them.
Cheers, --Peter 07:06, 13 January 2007 (EST)

I'll add them to the form right away. The problem is that I can only add them to the single Add File form and not the multiple one (or else it'd be way too long)... but if you are fine with that it's ok :)
The reason I have been hesitant to add this to the add file page is that thumbnails of the first page of the PDF file is really very simple to do automatically (pdftk + Imagemagick), if the host did not suck so much. And so when IMSLP gets a better host, I could just automatically make it produce a thumbnail of the first page of every PDF file just like any other image format (and it will also be managed like a thumbnail within the Mediawiki system). And so I've not been very sure about this. However, previews like what you are doing are fine though, as they are pretty much impossible to do automatically. Anyway, if you still would like me to add thumbnails/previews to the file submission form, just tell me, as I don't really have anything major against adding them, just that there might potentially be duplication of effort... --Feldmahler 23:54, 13 January 2007 (EST)
Edit: Actually, I think I could add it to the multi-page also as long as I reduce the number of files on the page to 10.
Well, if you don't mind, it would be nice (the single file submission page would be sufficient). I will concentrate on the preview images, and I think these are the most interesting too. I'm only asking myself if many people are actually looking at them... --Peter 06:04, 14 January 2007 (EST)
I'll add them right away :) --Feldmahler 12:41, 14 January 2007 (EST)
Added (and tested) :) --Feldmahler 13:18, 14 January 2007 (EST)
Thanks!--Peter 17:59, 14 January 2007 (EST)

This page has a weird bug...

Looks as though something is wrong with the template.

It looks like someone went through and attempted to create the thing themselves rather than using the template, whatever happened, tis fixed now.--Matthew 12:14, 19 January 2007 (EST)
What happened is that the File transorm page has been used to transform the old lay-out (you can see this when you click on history). However, as mentioned on the transform page, not all pages are transformed properly. You can only know that after you tried the conversion. These errors must be corrected by hand, and that's what didn't happen.
Also, did you know that linking can be more simple? See Help:Editing
Cheers, Peter 12:24, 19 January 2007 (EST)

IFLANG errors

I discovered that pages which have a Template in the Comments Fields, get very weird results (i.e. Category:FileNonPD-USandEU. I think the problem is that IFLANG does not accepted nested IFLANG tags which are the result of the IFLANG-containing template in an IFLANG-containing page... I know nothing about IFLANG, so I leave it to you to examine the problem :) Peter 12:10, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Wow! That is one mingled page. And yes, when I designed IFLANG I didn't think about nested IFLANG cases (or rather, I knew it would spit up errors); I will fix that now :) --Feldmahler 14:01, 21 January 2007 (EST)
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