IMSLP talk:Contributor Portal/archive 1

Free public domain sheet music from IMSLP / Petrucci Music Library
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Hello,

I think this is a great project. I am just wondering if you are affiliated with Wikipedia or if this is completely independent? 69.211.111.112 17:11, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

It's atm completely independent. The reason Wikipedia has so many links to IMSLP is that Wikipedia is the only place I know of where a link to this wiki would be appropriate (of course google is always welcome but it's not like I can edit their URL list or anything)... Feldmahler

Plus, it's similar to Wikipedia in philosophy: open source, etc. They tend to like this sort of thing over there and add links when appropriate. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 20:28, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

Contents

Translations

 I think if there were versions in other languages to, a lot of musicians who don't speak English would use these pages too.

I agree that having a multi-lingual version of the site would be a tremendous help. Do we have any linguists able to help? Failing that, I rely on AltaVista Babel Fish for "quick and dirty" translations. --Sphemusator 10:04, 10 June 2006 (CDT)

I would not know about that. I mean there is not really that much to translate, as neather the name of the composer or the opus number change according to different languages. Mozart would still be Mozart and KV.331 would still be KV.331, even in Turkish. -- Funper 11:23, 11 June 2006 (CDT)

Names and opus numbers should be fairly straightforward except for users of other alphabets, but I am thinking about navigating the site. Things like page titles and articles are in English, and it may be better to keep it that way in the long run - I find sites that use graphic links with words in another language can sometimes be more difficult to navigate than those with text links. --Sphemusator 15:09, 11 June 2006 (CDT)

What you guys are thinking is exactly what I wanted to do... I even created a translation portal page a few months ago (linked to via the vacant staff positions page), but its not really picking up (the fact that I only know a very limited number of languages is not helping either) :/ I've been looking at referers to this site on a daily basis, and I have to say that at least 70% of referers besides wikipedia are non-english sites. And I also think that translating IMSLP should be a fairly straightforward process... even translating the work pages is possible either via bots, or just having a reference page that gives the translation and have people refer to that. --Feldmahler 22:05, 11 June 2006 (CDT)


I found this from google so you're on it. :)

I've started to translate the main page into spanish today. If you have any comment or suggestion please write it to me in my discussion (en easy english please, my english isn't good right now :p)) Mr. Moonlight

The Importance of Being an Opus Number

I myself don't use Opus Numbers unless I absolutely have to. As a result, I have had to learn laymans german, french, and russian. I think that those that don't read english should at least attempt to learn, nationalist though it may sound. --Agreatguy6 16:27, 28 July 2006 (CDT)



Here we can see if we make progress :) Alexa traffic analysis for IMSLP


Ideas and Suggestions Discussion

I think new ideas and suggestions for IMSLP should be centralized on one page. This could be the forum, or a page on the wiki. In the latter, should it be this page? Or should this page be more static and informational, and the discussions be held on an other page?

Let's vote and bring some live to imslp!--Peter 13:59, 4 November 2006 (EST)

discussions on this page discussions only on the forum discussions on an other page
Peter 13:59, 4 November 2006 (EST)

Copyright guide

I constructed some tables as a guide for public domain issues. Note that these tables concern only works published in Canada, EU and Russia (which accounts for 99% of the composers on IMSLP). This is the situation in 2006 and the limits 1936 and 1956 change every year. Please add your comments or improvements. Maybe you'll think I changed things too drastically, but it's a wiki, so everything is reversible :p --Peter 18:38, 7 November 2006 (EST)

Some categories get templates on their pages for easy recognition of the copyright status. In each template is a category inclusion.


Copyright on the composition and on the publication if editor known, published before 1923

Author's death Canadian copyright U.S. copyright Abroad (E.U., Russia) Template to be used on IMSLP
<1936 public domain (life +50) public domain (pre-1923 copyright law) public domain (life + 70) none: always public domain
1936-1956 copyrighted will be created if necessary
>1956 copyrighted
Composer: Template:Copyright
Work: Template:Work1923
File: Template:File1923 (Hosted on US Server!)


Copyright on the composition and on the publication if editor known, published after 1923

Author's death Canadian copyright U.S. copyright Abroad (E.U., Russia) Template to be used on IMSLP
<1936 public domain (life +50) public domain (as in home country) public domain (life + 70) none: always public domain
1936-1956 copyrighted copyrighted
Composer: Template:ComposerNonPD-USandEU
Work: Template:NonPD-USandEU
File: Template:FileNonPD-USandEU
>1956 copyrighted
Composer: Template:Copyright
Work: Template:WorknotPD
File: Template:FilenotPD


Corporate copyright on the publication if editor unidentified.

Year Published Canadian Copyright U.S. Copyright Abroad (E.U., Russia) Template to be used on IMSLP
before 1923 public domain (pub + 50) public domain ? none: always public domain
1923-1956 copyrighted (pub.+95) unless in public domain at home ?
> 1956 copyrighted ?


Templates and corresponding Categories

Template:Copyright Category:Non-Public Domain Composers
Template:Work1923 Category:Works1923
Template:File1923 Category:File1923
Template:ComposerNonPD-USandEU Category:ComposerNonPD-USandEU
Template:NonPD-USandEU Category:WorkNonPD-USandEU
Template:FileNonPD-USandEU Category:FileNonPD-USandEU
Template:FilenotPD Category:Files not in public domain
Template:WorknotPD Category:Works not in public domain

Sorting the Work List by Opus Number

My idea was that it would be nice if the composer's pages could be sorted by opus number and by composition date or by any other field. This is not very simple, and a wiki expert would come in handy ...:) Wikimedia sorts categories alphabetically by default. My idea was gonna work, but failed at last: I created a subcategory "Works by Composer X by Opus Number" (sample Category:Enescu, George, by Opus Number). Via the description template (each work would be included in that category, with t::he opus number as the sort key (thus [[Category:{{{Composer}}} by Opus Number|{{{Opus number}}}]] However, the category entries are NOT listed by their sort key, but by their page name...

Any ideas how to make this work so that the opus number are displayed? Maybe DynamicPageList2 could help this problem. Or any other method.

see also wikimedia help page.

--Peter 06:32, 5 November 2006 (EST)


The most common way people are handling this is with redirect. The most obvious problem with this is the amount of redundancy.

Beethoven, Ludwig van Op.91 Wellingtons Sieg using [[Category:Beethoven Opus]]
Op.91 Wellingtons Sieg Beethoven, Ludwig van using [[Category:Opus]]
both redirect to ->
Wellingtons Sieg Op.91 (Beethoven, Ludwig van)

Another way is to use a sort key but I haven't seen a lot of success in this order of magnitude yet.

[[Category:category name|sort key]]

On this page -Wellingtons Sieg Op.91 (Beethoven, Ludwig van)- you could put:

[[Category:Opus|Op.91, Wellingtons Sieg (Beethoven, Ludwig van)]]

and on this page -Lyric Pieces, Op.43 (Grieg, Edvard)- you could put

[[Op.43 Lyric Pieces, (Grieg, Edvard)]]

I can already see problems with the idea. The amount of variables in naming conventions from composer to composer, what exactly the syntax of key is and relying on people to be able to follow the key rule, what the actual output on the category page is going to come out like. Experiment a bit with the key, maybe we can come up with something.

The dynamic list could eventually solve the problem but hasn't addressed issues needed here yet.

Obviiously there is always the manual way, search for "opus" and create a category page with what is listed, or create a template that is included in every opus page, then use the "what links here" to find all opus'.

--A Witt 08:02, 5 November 2006 (EST)


Or I can try to make a special page that sorts pages in a composer category by the opus number listed on the page itself... but the problem is of course that not all works have opus numbers and it's not going to be easy writing the thing lol. The amount of CPU load needed for this (especially for large categories) might be a problem, but I could cache the results and add stuff only when a new page is submitted.

But I won't have time to take up such a (relatively) large coding job for a while... --Feldmahler 09:51, 5 November 2006 (EST)

Ok, I've been lurking on this site for a while, and it seems to me that one of the absolute most obvious things that could be done, that would fix this issue, hasn't been done. Make a list page. Write of lists of every work, possibly more than one (by opus or other normal cataloging number, by genre, pure alphabetical). I don't know the mechanics of this project, but as a Wikipedian one of its tenants is that this isn't paper, text takes up little room. There should be plenty of room for as many pages as needed, so why not make lists -- it not only solves the sorting issue, it allows people to see what's /not/ there, and help fill in. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 20:33, 8 November 2006 (EST)
Well... that is a way of doing it :) The problem now is... who's going to do this? On another note, I think Chopin is actually complete, with the addition of his Op.3 (yey). --Feldmahler 20:39, 8 November 2006 (EST)
We can copy the lists of Wikipedia. The only thing that we have to do is change the links to IMSLP. But still, the programmed lists seem the best....--Peter 18:01, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Classical Music Archives

I'm wondering what people think of adding links for composer and piece to the CMA site/page and actual file for people that are registered on that site. While many of the files will be general midi, are sometimes programmed and don't sound all that great, they're still great for reference and a quick reminder what piece it is. There are also audio files of performances. They have a free registration that gets you 5 free files a day then paid memberships for more. Maybe we could even get them to link the other way for score that is available here and perhaps a discount on paid memberships for members of IMSL.

Like for Beethoven's category there can be a link to his page

Beethoven at Classical Music Archives

and like for the Piano_Sonata_No.32_(Beethoven,_Ludwig_van) page here,
has the Beethoven Sonatas at Classical Music Archives link that goes to the Sonatas section on the Beethoven page

and...

MIDI file at Classical Music Archives (registered users)

goes directly to the MIDI or audio file if there is one for CMA registered users.

Just throwin the idea out there.

--A Witt 14:21, 5 November 2006 (EST)

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